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tv   New Day  CNN  October 16, 2017 5:00am-6:00am PDT

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reading comments on the web. they're often inane. they go off in wild directions and frankly it's a waste of time. so one can say a lot of what these trolls were doing was going off into empty cyberspace without much impact at all. so, you know, there's still a lot of questions, how much influence this really had at the end of the day. >> michael isikoff, thank you very much for this important and interesting reporting. it's good to have you on, as always. there is a lot of news this morning. what do you say? it's monday, but let's get after it. right now, it's a season of war against a gop establishment. >> if we're successful, mitch mcconnell is fine. if we're not, we're all in trouble. >> trump and mcconnell said to me today as the budget deadline and the possibility of a government shutdown looms. >> don't subsidize something that's never going to work. >> what he's doing is hurting the american people.
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just because we all made the deal doesn't mean you don't go back and look and say, is it still working. >> the president is using this for political cover. he has assembled a very unconventional game. he is an unconventional president. >> he is not going to permit kim jong-un to threaten the united states with a nuclear weapon. >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and allison c. >> allison is off. poppy harlow joining me. good to have you. >> making my monday morning all right. >> oh, that's very kind. in just hours, president trump is going to have lunch with senator mitch mcconnell, the man he has publicly attacked for failing to repeal obamacare. and when they're sitting at that lunch, the president's pal, steve bannon, is declaring war on mcconnell and the gop establishment. can the president strike a deal on anything, let alone the big
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thing like taxes, budget, health care. we'll see. >> all that stuff to get done for the american people. at the same time, the secretary of state rex tillerson, is tackling reports that he called the president, an f'ing moron, still not denying and vowing to continue diplomatic efforts with north korea, quote, until the first bomb drops. a lot to cover at the white house this morning. let's go there. where we find our joe johns. good morning, joe. >> reporter: good morning, poppy. despite the public sniping between the president and majority leader mitch mcconnell, the two men will sit down for lunch today. the vice president also will be there. tax reform hangs in the balance. they need to get something done on the budget in order to move taxes by the end of the year. president trump and senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, meeting face-to-face today after months of growing tension. both leaders desperate for a legislative win, set to chart the path forward on key issues,
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like health care and tax reform. >> going to get tax reform done? >> yeah, if we don't, we're dead. >> reporter: the president also cozying up to two former rivals, inviting lindsey graham and rand paul to play golf over the weekend. >> he's a better golfer than i am. >> reporter: but despite these warming relations, growing signs of deep divisions within the republican party. >> the donors are not happy. they've all left you. we've cut your oxygen off, mitch. >> reporter: steve bannon attacking mitch mcconnell by name this weekend and declaring war on the gop establishment. >> this is not my war. this is our war. the establishment started it. but i will tell you one thing. you all are going to finish it. >> reporter: this is republican senator, susan collins, a key no vote on health care. criticized the president's move to kill subsidies benefitting poor americans. >> what the president is doing
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is affecting the ability of vulnerable people to receive health care right now. >> reporter: secretary of state, rex tillerson, addressing his own rocky relationship with the president on cnn's "state of the union." >> did you call him a moron? >> as i indicated earlier when i was asked about that, i'm not going to deal with that kind of petty stuff. i'm just not going to dignify the question. >> reporter: refusing to answer when asked repeatedly if he called the president a moron. before pushing back against comments from republican senator bob corker that the president is trying to publicly cast trait him. >> i checked. i'm fully intact. this is an unconventional president. he uses unconventional communication tools, unconventional techniques to motivate change. >> reporter: tillerson also defending the president's decision to decertify the iran deal and the administration's strategy toward north korea. >> the president has also made clear to me he wants this solved diplomatically. he is not seeking to go to war.
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those diplomatic efforts will continue until the first bomb drops. >> reporter: the president is expected to meet with his cabinet this morning, then he's going to turn his attention to another statewide race in the south. this time, it will be south carolina. the governor there expected to face challenges from two republicans. the president picked the wrong horse in the alabama senate race earlier this year. >> went against his boy, bannon and lost. let's discuss with cnn political analyst, john avlon and david sanger. all right. so let's start with this domestic situation here first, john avlon. the democrats saying we'll hold up everything over health care. so where's the room to get something done? the president sent a mixed message. he cancelled these cost-sharing revenues but also said to the democrats, put a deal together, come back to me. >> yeah, i lit the house on fire, but if you want a firefighter, call the station. i mean, there may be some kind
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of opportunity. the governors in particular. pay attention to the governors. republican governors who are outraged about this action. there has been a systemic effort to undermine obamacare, because they haven't been able to replace legislatively. whether alexander murray comes in. what was done yesterday is a form of arson. it is an ideological agenda that is going to hurt real people. but the governors are the people to watch. they're the canaries in the coal mine and the governors in particular are furious about this. >> david sanger to you on health care and also on tax reform. lindsey graham gave, you know, full of sound bites yesterday, one of them, "we're dead." the entire party is dead and you can forget about mitch mcconnell if we can't get this thing done on tax reform. how do you see it? >> well, i think lindsey graham was pretty plain-spoken. has gotten this about right. i mean, they failed on health care to do something that they should have been able to have
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had a plan ready to go for the past six or seven years. right? and the tax plan is the core of what the republican party and the republican majority thinks about. so if they can't get that through, and they can't get health care through, you've got to think their base is going to notice. but not just their base. there are a lot of republicans out there, and some democrats, who feel that the tax reform plan is long overdue, and if that's the case, it would be pretty remarkable with this kind of majority they couldn't get it together. i suspect on taxes they'll find a way. >> but, you know, obviously, he's right. taxes are core. but so is repealing and replacing obamacare for seven years. the difference has been is they focused on opposition, not proposition. and even with the tax reform proposal, the outline put forward by the president, you've got fundamental conte additions.
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a president who wants middle class tax cuts, might want to raise taxes on the wealthy. this is really supposed to be populist. and the proposal they put out is the exact opposite. so while there's notional sentimental support for tax reform and need to do it for their credibility and arguably for the economy, at least wall street which seems to be betting on tax reform being done, there is still no actual underlying coherence among republicans among the catechism. >> we had the republican from louisiana, very plain-spoken and certainly fights for the middle classes in own state. he's known for that. it was not easy for him to defend this proposal. he said, it's just a proposal. just a proposal. but it was -- captioned as, this is to help the middle class. and it doesn't do that. in any way that's even close to proportion. for what it does for the wealthy. so what does that do within their own caucus there, david? >> well, it's a question here of whether or not they think people are actually going to pay
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attention to the details of what a cut is. the president, as john points out, talks about this at such a 30,000-foot level that you never hear him sort of get into the details other than to say it's going to be beautiful and the middle class will benefit from it. and then, of course, you read into the details of it, you discover that, in fact, they may not. and this is what happens when you don't have legislation that is being driven by a white house legislative office that is strongly coming out and saying, here's how the bill matches up with the president's rhetoric. and that has never happened in this administration. >> yeah, i mean, you just look at what the tax policy center says. they're independent. they analyze it and the middle class gets this much help, and then the rich get this much help. so it's the qualification that the president is not putting on it. let's move on, david. you did fascinating reporting over months. this investigation into the threat from north korea. aside from the nuclear threat. before we get to what you found,
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let's listen to the secretary of state in a rare interview, sitting down with cnn, talking about how he is continuing to push diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy, despite what the president says or tweets. listen to this. >> he has made it clear to me to continue my diplomatic efforts, which we are, and we will -- as i've told others, those diplomatic efforts will continue until the first bomb drops. >> remember, the president has tweeted that tillerson -- >> save your energy. >> -- wasting his time with diplomacy. so mixed message. >> totally mixed message. but it's not just the nuclear threat. you guys found a whole lot more in this investigation, david. >> well, we did. and i think what you're hearing from secretary tillerson there is an effort that he, secretary of defense mattis, the national security adviser, hr mcmaster, are pursuing, which is to say that to hold an alliance together, if you've actually got to get into a confrontation with north korea, you've got to show that you've done everything you
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can to negotiate. now, remember, at this point the north koreans have shown no interest in negotiation. that may change over time. but so far, no interest. the investigation we did worked from this premise. that the nuclear and missile tests you've seen are just that. they are tests. and the north koreans know that they can't actually use a nuclear weapon, because if they did, they know what happens to the regime. but cyber has emerged from something that was sort of a joke when the north koreans first tried it in 2008, 2009, to something they have gotten quite skillful at, a weapon they can use and used it for many things from theft from banks, to trying to get retribution against not only sewn sony, but we discovered a british network because of work they were doing that the north koreans thought would impugn the image of kim jong-un, the leader. >> and where does it lead you in terms of as you go down the road to the investigating, where did it lead you in terms of what
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needs to be known going forward? >> two things, chris. first, we have to expect that if we press north korea more and more on the nuclear -- in the nuclear arena, they are going to push back in the cyber arena. because they recognize that this is where we have a huge vulnerability. but it tends usually to be below the level at which we would retaliate. so if they go after banks, if they go after tv networks, if they go after movie studios, we're probably not going to take a big risk on that. second thing to remember, cyber is destabilizing. and it's destabilizing, because the north koreans fear that if we ever took out their networks, their missiles, we previously reported about american cyberattacks on their missile program. they wouldn't be able to use any of it in a real confrontation. that means they're more likely to try to use it early. >> john, final word. >> look, this is clearly the emerging forefront of war.
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and it's an opportunity for rogue states, because it is a classic gmaneuver. could move missiles off line. does that act as a hair trigger to move forward. but the stability comes with the cold war and conventional forces opposite each other is -- we're in a brave new world here, folks. and individual actors and rogue nations can have massive destabilizing impact on companies. and until we've got a national policy in place for retaliation, that vulnerability that david pointed out will continue. >> well done, david, and your team. a lot of new information, a lot of new perspective in the piece. we hope people read it. >> trying to steal a bill bucks from the federal reserve. that's how you start the piece. people should dig in this morning in "the times." thank you. >> nearly worked. >> there you go. signs of hope this morning. looking at the deadly blaze in northern california.
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but things have turned the corner. finally. firefighters getting the upper hand on some of these wildfires. still at least 40 people have died in the last week. more than 200 people still unaccounted for. ryan young is in hard-hit santa rosa with more. you were with us last week. you were wearing the mask. you're not this morning. it's a positive sign. still, a lot of death and a lot of destruction. >> reporter: i probably should be still wearing the mask. the smoke is still sort of thick up here. but i guess i'm just taking a chance with it. when you look at a home behind you like this one, you can see the damage that's been left behind. something that we can show you in the distance, five miles away, we can actually see the flames from another fire. but the good news is, just like you talked about, they have been able to get some of those fires contained. the fact the two largest fires are 60% contained, these firefighters have been working their butts off to knock this fire down. we know more than 8,000 just working for the last week to knock it out. and, of course, we've got to show you this video of the two roommates to tried to escape the fire. this fire is moving so fast, a
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lot of questions from people saying, how did people get trapped by the fire. when you figure out the fact that it was moving more than a football field every two to three seconds, you understand just how dangerous this was. and when you watch this video, you can see the two men trying to escape the fire. it was all around them. they're in their car. trying to decide, which direction to go. this played out over and over again. then there's the sad story of a couple who was here visiting, and they had been married 50 years and couldn't escape the fire. they jumped in the pool, and unfortunately, the wife died in her husband's arms. the husband suffered second degree burns. we're hearing more stories of survival, but also the idea that so many people are still missing their loved ones. more than 200 people still missing. this is a very tough story, because the fact disaster seems to continue and continue, day after day. everyone has been impacted, especially when you talk about the air quality. and it might not rain until thursday. chris? >> and the winds. today it's supposed to be a little bit more mild, but every
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time they pick up, it turbo charges the whole situation. that's why it's different from a hurricane. it never ends the way a normal natural disaster might. ryan, thank you so much. former white house chief of staff, reince priebus, was interviewed by special counsel, bob mueller, and his team in the russia investigation. we're going to talk with a member of the house intel committee, which is conducting its own investigation. what questions do they have, next? tic arthritis tries to get in my way? watch me. ♪ i've tried lots of things for my joint pain. now? watch me. ♪ think i'd give up showing these guys how it's done? please. real people with active psoriatic arthritis are changing the way they fight it... they're moving forward with cosentyx®. it's a different kind of targeted biologic. it's proven to help people find less joint pain and clearer skin. don't use if you are allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx you should be checked for tuberculosis.
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special counsel bob mueller's team is in the middle of interviewing current white house staffers as part of their investigation into russia's election meddling and potential ties to the campaign. they sat down with reince priebus to ask him a lot of questions. with us is democratic congressman, eric swalwell of california, who would like to sit down with reince priebus, as well. it's nice to have you here. thanks for joining us. >> good morning, poppy. >> so to be clear, neither committee has had a chance to question priebus. we don't know what he told bob mueller's investigators. we know it lasted a long time on friday. what would you ask him? >> that's right. well, i think he is a witness, particularly, you know, for the judiciary committee, around what actions the trump team took after the election. you know, we know that the russians were in the oval office. the russian ambassador and foreign minister. and the president was kind of showing off about how he had just fired james comey and wouldn't have that problem when
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he dealt with the russians any more. and, you know, reince priebus was a witness to that when he was chief of staff. so any quid pro quo that would have taken place with the russians, if that occurred, he would be a witness to. and also, poppy, i should note that we put in place over the summer sanctions against russia for what they did in the election. and we are still seeing today that the white house has not implemented them. there are 15 days now past the deadline. so it's those kinds of -- you know, what did they do to benefit russia post election that priebus would be relevant. >> if there was something. >> that's right. >> so, you know, it's been -- there are some americans who have fatigue, right, on this? and they say show me the evidence, show me the evidence, show me the evidence. and that is incumbent on your investigations, and both committees wrapping up the bipartisan efforts and on mueller's investigation finishing up. no one wants to rush that. but have you seen, congressman, anything to this point that you can say to americans right now, you will be convinced beyond a
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reasonable doubt that there was collusion here between anyone on the trump team and the russians? have you seen anything to that effect yet? >> well, poppy, i remember about seven months ago, you asked me that question. and when you asked me that, we had not seen an e-mail that said, trump/russia, private confidential, and don junior eagerly taking a meeting with the russians. we had not seen an e-mail with michael cohen and felix sater, where they said we could engineer this for our boy and arrange a meeting between donald trump and putin. so it does seem when you're in the thick of it doesn't move as fast as you would like. but i think we have made tremendous progress in the media and also in the house and senate investigations that have shown a willingness and an eagerness to work with the russians. poppy, what you're pointing to, and i'll acknowledge -- >> i don't think anyone should rush. so if i made it sound like that, i shouldn't. have but what i am saying is, have you seen anything? are you saying those e-mails are
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evidence of collusion. is there anything classified that you have seen that you cannot disclose what it is right now, but you say, yes, this would prove to the american people, beyond a reasonable doubt, there was collusion. >> those e-mails are absolutely evidence of an eagerness to collude. what we're piecing together is whether it amounted to a relationship. i would like the house intelligence committee's investigation to be as curious and as dogged as bob mueller's. and i'll give an example. we interviewed last week samantha power. for over four hours. that's two more hours than jared kushner sat in the witness chair because jared kushner didn't want to sit there and the republicans didn't want to bring him in under subpoena. so why samantha power is more relevant to whether the trump team worked with the russians than jared kushner, i can't tell you. but it shows a lack of curiosity, and it's going to hamper i think our ability to
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tell the american people just what happened. >> it sounds like you're saying -- are you saying that your republican counterparts on these committees are not curious enough to get real answers? >> i think they're curious about the wrong things. and that's why i'm supporting having an independent commission. i think it would be an insurance policy against an investigation in the house that right now still has an asterisk around it. chairman conway who has taken over for nunez. there is a lot of witnesses coming in the next few weeks who i think are more relevant. and i hope by the end of the year we've made progress and have answered those questions. >> let me ask you a few other things before we go on bipartisanship, which would be so lovely to see a little bit more of in the house and in the senate. and just in washington in general. do you think that nancy pelosi and chuck schumer are playing nice with the president and vice
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versa is actually working? >> yes. and i think the d.r.e.a.m.ers who are counting on a solution so they're not removed need nancy pelosi and chuck schumer to negotiate with the president. so i fully support that. >> but how is it working? the president has -- you know, made clear he wants things they will never agree to in order to come to a deal on daca, and then he ended the subsidies, which infuriated democrats and a lot of americans for health care on friday. >> i think it's important that we show americans that we are willing to work with the president, if it means putting people to work, growing their paycheck, helping immigrants who are here living in the shadows of fear. but if he wants to, you know, build a wall, pass policies that are hurtful or tax cuts that only help the wealthy, we're going to block it. i see it, poppy, as being america's bouncers. we can let the good ideas in and work with him on that and the bad ideas we have to stand firm and not allow to go to the american people. >> congressman, we appreciate your time. thank you for being here. >> my pleasure, poppy. so the white house says that
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sapphire reserve, from chase. make more of what's yours. it is time for cnn money now. president trump tweeting about taxes this morning, saying, quote, the democrats only want to increase taxes and obstruct. that's all they are good at! the white house says corporate tax breaks will help workers, giving them money for pay increases. is that how it works? let's bring in chief business correspondent, christine romans. you're going to tell us if it's true. and i'll just add one fact. companies are holding a lot of cash right now, but wages aren't going up. what gives? >> that's right, chris. you're absolutely right. president trump calls his tax plan a middle class miracle. yes, it cuts the rates across
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the board but the biggest cuts go to business and the wealthy. so now the white house is framing corporate tax cuts as a raise for the middle class. $4,000 more. the president's top economists issuing a report this morning with this scenario. today companies keep profits i don't have shore to avoid the 35% corporate tax rate. trump's corporate tax would encourage them to bring money back home, boosting profits. how are company profits good for workers? the 1% profit bump should translate into a raise for workers for 4 grand over eight years. the white house view is the tax code is so broken, it has been holding down worker wages for years. other tax experts not so sure. they say there's no guarantee companies will bring back overseas cash. there's no guarantee the tax savings will go to worker pay instead of shareholders. we have seen corporate profits come back overseas money come back in the past, poppy, and it's gone right to dividends and share buybacks. so would it really go to worker paychecks? we just don't know. >> bush administration, as we
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were saying in the break, case in point. christine romans, thank you so much. colin kaepernick. filing a grievance against the nfl owners, alleging they colluded to keep him out of the game. does he have a case? we'll discuss, next.
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colin kaepernick filing a grievance against the nfl owners, alleging they colluded to keep him out of the game because of his protests of the national anthem. let's discuss all of this. senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin is here and former nfl wide receiver, dan at a stallworth, well very dapper in that bowtie this morning. >> thank you. you look good too. >> and jeffrey gets the first question. jeffrey, this is a fascinating case. this is saying that, you know, owners violated the rules of the collective bargaining agreement, colluded against him, didn't put him on any team. i'm not going to ask you to analyze his skills as a player. we'll get to dante for more on that. how strong is his case? >> it's a very tough case, because picking quarterbacks is a very subjective process. and teams can say we chose him
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because we wanted a dropback quarterback, not a running quarterback. we didn't want someone -- someone his age. the -- and collusion requires not one team rejecting kaepernick. it requires agreements between two or more teams. ask that is very difficult to prove, even though all of us who are football fans sort of know intuitively that kaepernick is better than a lot of the quarterbacks who have been hired. proving that is very difficult. >> quick follow. what is their latitude, the teams, the league, on the ability to say, and we measure people on a character level, and we don't like what he is about. how much latitude do they have to say that, and not by default mean that it has to be political? because they pick and don't pick guys all of the time whether they like them or not. >> correct. that's another area that's problematic for the case that
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kaepernick is bringing. because they do have discretion to include character, personality. what they're not allowed to do under the collective bargaining agreement is penalize him for his politics. and that's what they're -- that seems to be what they're doing. but proving that will be very difficult. >> dante, can you walk us through how good he is? >> yeah. he had a pretty good year last season. he played only in 12 out of 16 games. he threw 16 touchdowns and only 4 interceptions. now, the whole case with miami and jay cutler being signed there, that actually made sense. i know the optics were bad on that, with a guy coming out of retirement, a guy who never really looked like he even wanted to play football at times. they brought him out of retirement instead of signing colin kaepernick. but that made sense, specifically in that case. but there have been other cases, and you look throughout the league where there's a number of teams that really need quarterbacks.
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and i think anyone -- and aaron rodgers said it best. aaron rodgers himself said it best. he specifically said that the reason why colin kaepernick is not on an nfl team is because of his protests. now, who knows quarterbacks better than aaron rodgers. who knows how good they are better than aaron rodgers. so the fact you have players across the league that understand this is that it's not his talent but the fact he decided to peacefully protest. that is the reason why he's not on the field. >> a couple quick things, dante. one, how does that rest with players? you're talking to a lot of people. how do they feel about the fact that kaepernick is not in the game, maybe because of his politics? >> it makes them nervous. it makes them feel that they can't speak out on controversial -- or what's at least by society termed to be controversial subjects. i've talked to a number of guys where they said, you know, i'm not making millions of dollars like everyone believes i am. but i am in a position to use my platform. but i also want to be able to take care of my family down in the long run. so the dilemma that players are dealing with on a daily basis is
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from a moral concept, and then you go to, you know, a livelihood, your occupation. so -- and being able to take care of your family. so those two things are always going to be fitting with -- when you listen to what the players are talking about. a lot of the guys that are more financially stable, more stable on the football team itself, they feel like they have a little more leeway. and it's unfortunate that they are pushed towards that type of thinking. >> all right. so we've been waiting to hear from the nfl on this all night. now we are. this just came in. i'm reading it for the first time, as you're all hearing it. the nfl players association. just to be clear, we actually still haven't heard from the nfl. >> this is the players association that will be carrying forward the grievance for kaepernick. they say, our union has a duty to assist mr. cappkaepernick, a all do and we will support him. the nflpa has been in contact with mr. kaepernick's representatives the past year about his options and our union agreed to follow the direction of his advisers throughout that time. we first learned through media
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reports today that mr. kaepernick filed a grievance, claiming collusion through our arbitration system. and is represented by his own counsel. we learned that the nfl was informed of his intention to file this grievance before today. we are scheduling a call with his advisers for early this week. >> that's interesting. obviously, the big meetings here in new york this week, jeffrey toobin, between the nfl, owners, players invited also. >> right. and, you know, i can see why these players are really nervous. because even if he can't prove collusion, colin kaepernick has suffered because of his exercise of his rights to free speech. and if you are a player in a league with only two or three-year careers, as it often the case, are you going to take this kind of risk? >> and, look, the proof is in the silence. to your point, to dante's -- we haven't heard a lot from number 7. and this probably is a reason for that.
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at some point, he'll make his case. dante, thank you very much. jeffrey, as always. president trump's actions to dismantle obamacare facing tough criticism from the left and the right. what do you say? let's debate it, next. feel that tingle of a cold sore coming on? only abreva can heal it in as little as two and a half days when used at the first sign. abreva starts to work immediately to block the virus and protect healthy cells. abreva acts on it. so you can too.
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kyle, we talked about this. there's no monsters. but you said they'd be watching us all the time. no, no. no, honey, we meant that progressive would be protecting us 24/7. we just bundled home and auto and saved money. that's nothing to be afraid of. -but -- -good night, kyle. [ switch clicks, door closes ] ♪ i told you i was just checking the wiring in here, kyle. he's never like this. i think something's going on at school. -[ sighs ] -he's not engaging.
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i think something's going on at school. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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all right. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are going after the president's actions on health care. by ending subsidy payments, there's an argument to be made that he is hurting the most vulnerable americans. signing this executive order that allows, you know -- allows for these cost-sharing subsidies to no longer be paid. is that really damaging, or is it helping? let's discuss. we have cnn contributor, dr. zika manual, one of the architects of obamacare, and rick santorum, who helped craft the republican graham/cassidy bill. rick, i know you were caught in traffic. thank you for beating the conditions and getting to us. the president's executive action on cost-sharing revenues.
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cutting them. the right move, why? >> well, i think it was the right move, because it actually puts a gun to the congress' head to try to do something, to try to fix the broken system that is obamacare today. if the democrats knew that they were going to continue to get the milk, they didn't have to buy the cow. they were going to continue to get these subsidies. even though they're illegal. it's very clear, the courts made it very clear, unless congress appropriates this money, the president can't spend it. president obama did, president trump did, but president trump finally said no, no, i'm not going to do this any more. the courts have been very clear. i can't spend money that congress doesn't appropriate. so he's now put it back to the congress, saying you want to appropriate this money, fine. but we need to reduce premiums. and that's what republicans are saying. you talk about those who are vulnerable because they have lost these cost-sharing reductions. how about the millions of americans who are not getting any help from the federal government on these exchanges, and are going out there and buying, you know, policies that are double what they were just a few years ago. those are the folks who are
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getting hurt. and that's what republicans are looking at, trying to help them. >> let's go point by point. but zeke, for the purpose of discussion, let's leave the legality of the payments out. it may have been rendered moot, because you don't have an underlying grievance to be held in that litigation. let's put that to the side. and let's talk about rick's two main premises. one, that the president did the right thing, because he had to force the hand of congress. and two, that this isn't really hurting anybody. it's helping premiums. >> so let's make three points. the first point is, we need to see the revoking of these cost-sharing subsidies in a long sdwens sequence in which the president is trying to undermine health insurance. he short ended the open enrollment period. he's reduced the advertising to get people to buy plans. he's trying to siphon off healthy people into these so-called association plans, and now he's eliminating the cost-sharing subsidies. former senator santorum is right that there's a group of people
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who have seen their premiums go up, who aren't getting subsidies. they make about $100,000 or more per household. and a small fraction of them, the healthy and the young in that category, will, in fact, get cheaper premiums. but everyone else -- everyone in the exchanges and people who are buying who happen to be middle-aged or have some preexisting condition, will not get a benefit. and those people are going to see their premiums go up at least 20%. on average, many more people will see the premiums go up. let me tell you about a guy i met the other day, a cameraman, who actually had -- was born with a defect in his heart, has had three cardiac surgeries. he is going to be totally priced out of the market because of the president's actions. he's going to see his premiums skyrocket. so the idea that this is helping and making premiums more affordable, totally untrue. and it's certainly untrue for all of us who get our premiums from our employer. this is just fake news that this going to make premiums better. there will be a few hundred
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thousand people who will benefit. most people will not benefit. >> rick. >> yeah, i would say this. first off, the act of itself of not funding the csrs, i agree with you, it's not going to make premiums lower. >> all right, so we just unmasked the president's justification. false justification. >> no. what the president is doing is saying number one, it's illegal. number two, congress, you have to act to lower premiums. he's done some things that will lower premiums, but the congress needs to do more. and that's the point that ron johnson and mark meadows and a group of republicans are going to put something on the table this week that's going to lower premiums, in exchange for conservatives voting for these cost-sharing reduction payments. if the democrats are serious about trying to lower premiums -- >> mr. santorum -- >> the gentleman you just talked about, they need to do that. >> been waiting seven years for a republican proposal that will lower premiums. there has not been one republican proposal to lower premiums that has been scored by
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an independent group, standard & poor's, or any number of other groups that evaluate these things that has said they have a proposal that will lower premiums. we will wait to see it, but we have to a proposal. i've given the president many ideas about lowering premiums. go after drugs, which there's bipartisan support for. he hasn't done that, has never submitted legislation. change how we pay doctors and hospitals. probably the best way of lowering premiums. they've actually reversed that in hhs under former secretary price. change how we actually buy hospital beds or cpap machines. >> okay. so zeke, what you're talking about is everything but what republicans believe will lower premiums. which is competition. which is choice. which is giving consumers different choices. right now they don't have, because obamacare forces you to buy a lot of things that you don't want to have to pay for, and drives up the cost accordingly. what we need to do is give consumers choices. that's what donald trump is
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trying to do. >> wait a second. >> deal with his point, zeke. >> in 2018, there was not a single county projected not to be a single county without health insurance. now as a result of his executive action and these cost-sharing subsidies, there will be many counties without a insurance plan. >> does competition -- >> that is not competition. that is anti competition. he is, in fact, undermining competition. >> you can't blame donald trump for the failure of obamacare. look, this thing has been in a death spiral for a few years. you never met the numbers that the congressional budget office said -- >> let's take that proposition, rick. zeke, this is a big point. we hear it all of the time. obamacare is in a death spiral. it's missing its numbers. it's dying. >> false. so first of all, independent valgss by standard & poor's, who doesn't have a dog in the political fight by the congressional budget office, and many other groups have said that the exchanges are here to stay. they're solid. they're going to go. now, you are going to have some problems in certain places, especially rural areas, where
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it's hard to put together a big network, and there aren't many consumers. that is not a death spiral. and well-run exchanges, like the cover california, actually are doing well, because they have answered all the problems mr. santorum has said. they have more competition, they have had larger areas, they have actually done a lot of advertising to bring people in. if you want to actually get premiums down, keep the exchanges healthy. what you do is you pass the cost-sharing subsidies. you have reinsurance in case excess sick people come in. you heavily advertise. you increase the length of open enrollment, and you target young and healthy people to encourage them to get insurance. and indicate to them how cheap the insurance is for them with subsidies. those will shore up the exchanges. those will bring in insurance companies. and that will keep the prices of the premiums down. none of that is -- they don't have an idea. >> quick last word. >> all of those things are being
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done by president obama, prior to president trump coming in place. and what happened? what happened is, you cite cbo. cbo is off by over 50% as far as the number of people insured here. the bottom line is, most of the gains of insured have not been through the exchanges. as you know, zeke, it's been adding to the medicaid roles. your private sector reforms failed. failed miserably. the costs are high, unless you get subsidies. you're driving people out of the marketplace right now. it is a disaster. and donald trump is trying to fix it, give him credit for at least trying. >> all right. >> no, because his policies are actually undermining the exchange, and he's not going to lower premiums. i would like us to come back and see in 2018 premiums go down or up 20%. if they go up 20%, rick santorum has to eat his words. >> done. i don't know about eat the words part. we'll see what happens. this is a good pairing. we'll do this several more times. fellas, thank you very much. appreciate it.
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we're going to be talking about the california wildfires, and how could there be anything good in that. fair criticism. but listen to this story. jack weaver's parents were forced to flee their home because the fires quickly surrounded their house. they had to get out in an instant, and that meant leaving their beloved bernese mountain dog, izzy. they thought for sure she didn't make it. jack went to investigate the wreckage, filming the whole time. you have to see this. >> izzy? [ whistling ] here, pup! izzy's here. izzy! izzy, izzy, come here, baby! >> oh, my god! oh, my god! >> hey, baby! >> can you imagine, looking at that. and there's jack weaver, and there is izzy.
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this -- i'll tell you what, boy, this really just kind of pop up your spirit for the possible. how is the doggy doing? tell us about that feeling of seeing that she was still there. >> it was extreme relief. she is doing great. once we found her, we took her straight to a vet and had her completely checked out. and aside from being covered with soot and ash, she was in perfect health. >> i mean, looking around, i know it just had to be so heartbreaking to see everything that was taken by this fire. how do you think she made it? >> you know, she's a miracle dog. she survived cancer twice. and we don't know where she went. the vet said perhaps her thick fur helped insulate her from the fire. there was an area that was relatively unburned. just a very small one. perhaps she went there. but we don't really know. >> what did it mean to you folks to be able to bring back part of the family? >> it meant everything. my mom was completely devastated. and so was my dad. and my father had been injured escaping.
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and so everyone was feeling pretty low at that moment. and when we found her, it chang changed everyone's perspective. it meant everything. >> oh, man. what are you guys looking at in terms of coming back from this fire? >> it's going to be a long recovery. a long recovery for everyone, you know. the community has come together in an amazing way. it's been nice to see the good in people, people who lost everything, helping others. it's going to be a long road. but seeing what i -- people helping each other, i have no doubt we'll be able to do it. >> we always say, when we see the worst of mother nature, we see the best of human nature. how is the dog? is she any different after the experience? i know in reading about it, you said she was panting, seemed a little stressed. but she was fine. you said you got her checked out. how about her disposition? is she more tied to you guys? >> you know, for the first couple days, she went everywhere we went, and obviously we weren't looking to be anywhere but with her. but we have always called her nana, just like in the movie
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"pan," because she loves kids and she's been with our kids and just it's been really wonderful. >> we know it's early out there. thank you for getting up. thank you for lifting our spirits with this story. and that is a beautiful doggy. i'm glad she's there by your side. >> thanks so much. thanks for having us. >> boy, oh, boy. imagine that shock. imagine that surprise. a little bit of a happy ending and just such a nightmare of a story. >> izzy made my day. so did izzy, the executive producer of this show, by the way. >> very sensitive about the title. >> okay. senior. we love you, izzy. nice to be with you, my friend. >> you are so good to be here. thank you. thank you. i appreciate it. my friend, john berman, i will see you tomorrow. take it from here. >> every interview i'm going to do today is going to have someone scratching the other person's head for the entire interview to keep them docile. that was amazing. a lot of news, let's get to it. all right. good morning, everyone. john berman here. so a

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